So I picture a sort of QF where the match is the reduced tax or just fee amount. Start with a base of 100% of the fee. If an ad gets downvoted, the fee charged goes up (quadratically in line with the formula). If the add gets upvoted, the fee goes down. If it is super popular, you essentially get it for free. CD matches by reducing the fee to zero.
You pay more for crap and less for things people want to see.
I am just thinking out loud. Something like that anyway, which is cool. Big support here!
Vitalik proposed setting the Harberger Tax rate proportional to the popularity of the ad. Itās interesting but half baked; it would lower allocative efficiency because the most popular ads could squat at nominal tax rates and produce less social good (the tax itself) vs. setting the tax rate at the turnover rate (the moving average of lease-takeovers in the taxation period).
I support exploring this idea! I agree with lots of comments and questions that have been posed and agree that there is still a lot to figure out, namely the development and hardware side and more detail in actual costs, initial and ongoing (itās likely that this project takes more than $200k).
What I like most is that itās a physical object/property that can be āaccessedā by our digital community which is usually at odds with physical land (global citizenship and small geographic areas).
To the concerns of ādoes this fall in line with the missionā, Iād say this is another baby step for us to explore something more complex in terms of ownership and governing real property than bare land. I imagine weāll learn some lessons in what it takes to build the web interface for this and how common partial ownership schemes (these schemes are thrown out a lot, but with less focus than other groups focused on this). I bet we could find some other things to try. I also think this could be extremely fun and positive. One idea that comes to mind is, what does it mean for public space in advertising, letās say for positive messages like drink more water. In the same way public parks is space set aside, should we set aside for the visual clutter we have in cities.
Like all CityDAO projects, and what Iāve seen most recently in @DenverCitizen9 Dirt 2 Data project, is that it opens up a lot of interesting questions and ideas that I didnāt have before he started his work.
We donāt know exactly where this goes, but it has the potential to pose some interesting situations and questions and a real playground for some experiments.
To this point, this can generate revenue and break even in a Harberger Tax (Partial Common Ownership) system but we will need to create a clever mechanism design.
Typically billboard owners outsource their operations (sourcing ads, running placement auctions, delivering content, etc.) to 3rd parties that act as aggregators of both supply (billboards) and demand (businesses) creating more efficient markets for billboard advertising.
Because weāre proposing a custom auction mechanism (HT/PCO), we cannot tap into these aggregations and are incurring a larger upfront cost (needing to develop our own customer acquisition, auction, and management solutions/strategies).
This translates into an initial operating loss which either needs to a) be subsidized by the DAO or b) be paid for by efficiency gains of PCO. This latter solution is obviously everyoneās preferred, which brings us back to mechanism design and reinvestment of the Harberger tax revenue to unlock economies of scale.
This makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation. Though I see Willās point too that popular ads would sit for a long time with very low fees. Not that this is bad, per se. Also, would it be beneficial for us to spend the time and money to create a custom auction mechanism? Maybe thatās something we would want to have.
Generally support this as I trust the project team. However, if rev. is the main purpose, it would be nice to see a general rev. estimate for a $200k billboard in the proposal unless Iām missing it. Fun idea to experiment with!
@MemeBrains (based on community call input today - has some serious knowledge on the space) @will (design of underlying mechanics and experimentation) @Fugyeah (connections with billboard broker in crypto friendly location of South Florida & internal ops/project mgmt)
I just want to clarify, they arenāt just a broker - they own the boards. I know at least one is digital off the top of my head. I am personally more involved in the bus bench/shelter/transit ad portion but happy to provide access to my contacts for the team.
Love the possibilities for experimentation here. The CityDAO museum could feature some items in the collection, including some pieces submitted by Citizens.
Buying billboards is easy, obtaining new permitting is very difficult. Most cities are very anti-billboardāish and communities often vote them out as an eye sore. Example is in San Diego all new billboard construction is banned by local bylaw, most of silicon valley new boards are also dissalowed, whereas in Sacramento new board permits are sometimes available however thereās now a situation of over saturation of baords so picking one that is in an actual good location and not saturated is a legit task for someone. Do-able, but needs lots of time to do it right. Getting new permitting is often done on case-by-case basis with public/community hearings hosted by the city where a vote is held whether or not to issue and grant a permit and to which people/companies.
Considering 1) above, buying out an existing billboard often is easier than setting up new permitting. That said, old paper billboards are kinda the way of the dinosaur meaning digital billboards are the thing, yet thereās much less digital billboards up for sale than paper. Also, one thing I found when searching in the past is that not all digital boards are built equally. A bunch of cheap imports make it look affordable but just think about quality before diving in. Buying boards through reputable places like https://www.watchfiresigns.com/ gives a whole world of support, warranty and liability reduction but comes at a cost.
Re revenue, the old model of fixed purchasing monthly is trending towards extinction, pay-as-you-go models like here as an example; https://www.blipbillboards.com/
Getting the above done right within a $200k budget would be quite a major accomplishment. Lieutenant Spock might a few words to Captin Kirk on the subject of probability of success. Possible thoughā¦maybeā¦depending on what compromises are acceptable ie location, quality, age, paper vrs digital etc. Thereās likely some middle-of-nowhere locations what would open up some good options at that budget.
Most billboards are owned by the top 5 players and they hold a Darth Vader chock hold on the market. Use the force you mustā¦if victory you will achieveā¦yes
