I’m not asking for a budget right now. Just a green light vote on this guild. Then we will present a budget.
The scope needs to be decided first. Scope it then budget it. The scope isn’t decided on. I presented a potential scope.
Retroactively or not I’m not doing this for money. I have a vision for a city of the future that runs on Web3 rails and I care most to build that.
Again, @Da3vid I state that the goal is to build public goods.
As far as a forum for education, like I’ve said, I’ve made what feels like every mistake in the book and paid “tuition” for that. I am here to teach so that you all don’t have to make the same mistake. I have continually taught about real estate matters during discussions of such matters.
CityDAO should not pay bounties for anyone to learn unless they accomplish something (“Contribute”). Real estate has a healthy culture of “eat what you kill”. If you want to see some formal education program, please propose it. I think folks can learn by doing and we should focus on doing one thing at a time as well as possible, learning as we go, not running in multiple directions at once, slap dash, paying “tuition”
Does this guild proposal lack judiciousness (good judgement or sense)? Time is money. I’ve taken time to write numerous CIPs, including this one, and to redline the Operating Agreement and attend calls to voice my concerns, to be met with an echo-chamber culture from individuals with very little operating experience or domain expertise. Investing time is only a good investment if it has a payoff. The payoff I am looking for is (quoting from my post @MaxRealEstate - my professional experience, and my vision for CityDAO):
"I am a proud American, and I am for “love it and revolutionize it.”
I dream of a future for Philly where the government operates with competency. I dream of the same for America, a rebirth of effective, trustworthy institutions. And I believe that open source token technology will enable that.
Today, municipal systems are closed source, opaque, corrupt, slow, and costly for users (and taxpayers). Even the public records data that is legally in the public domain is hard to access.
I think CityDAO has an incredible opportunity to produce the open source primitives needed for a city or county to operate on Web3. I am most familiar with the real property systems and want to work on those."
How much real estate can CityDAO buy with the current treasury? $5.5M or so worth, unleveraged. Maybe $25M worth with 5X leverage. Have you ever developed real estate? It’s a very competitive business. Is CityDAO trying to build a city of the future or be a real estate developer? These are very different paths. The current treasury does not go a long way as a real estate developer and I want to build a city.
@MaxRealEstate the charter stipulates that an initial Guild proposal should include a basic outline of a quarterly budget. You talk a lot about wasting time and in the time it took you to write all these detailed rebuttals you could have easily articulated what money the guild might need to operate. I’m not talking about real estate acquisitions; people want to be paid for work. If you don’t want to be paid, fine. Please think about what other guild members might need comp-wise to accomplish tasks during q1 of guild operations and tell us. You also should think about any outside contractors you might need to engage in that time. The proposal does not need to be detailed, top line is fine.
Change the charter. I haven’t had time to read it and I requested 30 days to read and suggest improvements. As I said, no scope has been determined so how can a budget be proposed?
lol. 20 people busted their butts for 6 weeks to make that charter happen and you personally should be given 30 days to suggest changes? It’s up there now for a week… suggest away.
Nevertheless it is completely reasonable to ask for a top-line budget with an initial proposal for almost any project, DAO or otherwise. It a) gives decision makers (in our case voters) an idea of what you have in mind so they can make informed decisions and b) gives the guild some initial funding with which to operate. I work on highly creative endeavors at my day job and even there, without a script or anything concrete, we’ll talk about budget on a high level and get some development funding from a studio or streamer.
Based on the council meeting and community call the other day, and everything that’s happening with this proposal, it just seems like it must be your way or the highway on every little detail. You are clearly a brilliant person and stand to be a huge asset to this organization… just wish you could go with the flow a bit more. Compromise is utterly imperative for getting a hive of 10,000 people to move in the same direction, especially when you’re one of the people helping lead the way.
All credit due to those who spent time to draft that document (mission accomplished, Council), it was never read by @ethlaw and many issues have been pointed out (not to mention inconsistencies with the Operating Agreement). I haven’t had time to read the charter between other work. I requested 30 days for me and for @ethlaw and others before making it “ratified” because that is proper risk management, as I stated on the community call. What’s the rush? Seems like certain folks are looking out for themselves and not CityDAO. I am looking out for CityDAO and for you all who put time into drafting those docs.
This is a completely inaccurate assessment of my way of being.
I’m not. I just have a lot of experience which has come from making a lot of mistakes. I say what I say in an effort to help CityDAO and you all avoid obvious mistakes, to prioritize, get the basics and foundation correct before other matters. I only know to do this because I also have failed to do this before. I do not want to spend time on cleanup. There’s too much opportunity to be sidetracked by small things.
Again, scope is not decided. If we can decide on scope, I can work up a budget. I’ve asked nothing for my work so far. When we need budget, I will ask for it.
What should CityDAO pay for this job of the Real Estate Guild? It depends on the job. What’s the job? Not specified. I laid out the big picture for you all to consider and I would prefer substantive discussion of that rather than this echo chamber culture you are enforcing:
Separate venture. DAO’s venture fund other ventures all the time.
@gugz @Da3vid @alexthims @scottfits Here’s our proposed scope of Inaugural Real Estate Guild with a budget:
SUMMARY TOP LEVEL BUDGET for QUARTER 2 of 2022, now until June:
$50K & 6 ETH + Retroactive Reward at quarter end
Operations (like insurance) and Projects (discretionary): $25K
Web3City Labs: $25K (with all Citizen NFT holders having the option to get Web3City coins)
Parcel 0, Property Manager: 6 ETH
Parcel 0 DAO, Community Manager: 25% of Parcel 0 DAO Drop Tokens (with CityDAO being paid back its cost basis of $100K if title is transferred or some payment in kind equivalent if a ground lease for below market value is entered into)
Retroactive Reward at quarter end: To Be Determined By Citizens
SCOPE OF WORK:
FOR Real Estate Management & Development (6 ETH)
@DAOvolution as Property Manager responsible for liability insurance, property tax payments, etc. Quarterly: 6 ETH
@DAOvolution as Community Manager for Parcel 0 DAO, managing Parcel 0 NFT Drop, Parcel 0 DAO consensus, etc. 25% of Parcel 0 DAO Drop Tokens (with CityDAO being paid back its cost basis of $100K if title is transferred or some payment in kind equivalent if a ground lease for below market value is entered into)
FOR a City of the Future Built On Web3 Rails
Budget of $25K, with all Citizen NFT holders having the option to get Web3City coins
100% of the $25K will go into LandTitleDAO, with Citizens eligible to earn $DEED (and CityDAO to get $DEED)
The $25K will fund the Minimum Viable Product data collection system (Earthify). Product Spec Here.
FOR Additional Operating Budget $25k for the Inaugural Real Estate Guild, to, at the option of the Guild, pay contributors to the guild, or deploy into Parcel 0 (i.e. pay insurance, erect a totem), Parcel 0 DAO, or Web3City Labs projects like the open source eRecorder.
Our Bonus, or “Retroactive Reward”: of Citizen NFTs as determined by CityDAO in accordance with some “Retroactive Reward Funding Mechanism” that CityDAO will need to sort out (i.e. If CityDAO thinks we did a phenomenal job, CityDAO can Reward us with 25 Citizen NFTs or something).
Very much appreciate you adding this. For clarity on the Parcel 0 drop tokens, are you suggesting @DAOvolution get 250 of the 1000 NFTs we are about to drop?
While I appreciate Max negotiating on my behalf since normally its the other way around in my day job… but I would not accept that. I do not want any Parcel 0 NFTs unless I get one through the ordinary channels
No, I am asking that this Inaugural Real Estate Guild be given charge of the only real estate matter at CityDAO (Parcel 0), to launch a Parcel 0 DAO (where the Real Estate Guild retains 25% of the tokens, to deploy or use as it sees fit), and to negotiate arms length with CityDAO LLC and CityDAO the terms for a Parcel 0 lease or sale (or both, in a sale + lease-back).
@DAOvolution will lead that work for us because of his proximity to Parcel 0.
Our proposal will not be for Parcel 0 NFTs but for an ERC20. I will post the proposal shortly for community feedback. Of course, I want all of you to choose to join Parcel 0 DAO 
@lyons800 you asked “What’s web3city labs ? And the token.”
Have you read this post I wrote about building “a flourishing city of the future, operating on open source protocols, where the government is competent, markets are efficient, and citizens can count on rule of law”? Web3City Labs intends to incubate that. It will “produce the open source primitives needed for a city or county to operate on Web3. I am most familiar with the real property systems”
Tokenomics undecided but I promise every Citizen NFT holder will have the opportunity to get tokens in that. This vision is something I think many at CityDAO will support and I want a mechanism that encourages them to contribute.
@MaxRealEstate - my professional experience, and my vision for CityDAO (edited)
Thank you @MaxRealEstate for this detailed proposal. Some thoughts are below:
The first two of these are DAO-wide initiatives and the third is broad. Could we please see a more detailed plan regarding what guild-specific tasks you would aim to accomplish in the near term (first few months or quarters)?
Regarding Budget:
This seems like a lot of discretionary money for the first quarter of the guild’s operation. Could you outline more specifically (in the near term roadmap) what projects you intend to take on and what insurance you need to buy and propose a number that corresponds more closely to that work? The guilds will get funding every quarter (per current charter).
This feels too specific for q1 of guild operations. It also implies some sort of consensus that this project is supported by the DAO. Suggest cutting this from the budget ask.
6 eth seems like a lot. What needs to get done in the first 3 months that commands that kind of comp?
This implies consensus for the formation of a Parcel 0 DAO. Although it’s a good idea there is no consensus. Suggest striking.
This implies some consensus around / support for LandTitleDAO, and there is none yet. Suggest striking this too.
What’s your proposal for facilitator comp? Just the retroactive element?
In the $25K discretionary and 6 ETH, and in the funding of projects I care about. Plus the Retroactive, if earned.
Between Josh and me, you’ve got two professionals who have a market rate for our time. I think I’ve asked for fair compensation.
Yes these are DAO-wide and pertain to real estate matters. If CityDAO LLC owns Parcel 0, the Operating Agreement is in our domain. Furthermore, I’ve shared my feedback about that awful document. If you don’t want my feedback anymore, suit yourself.
Pope CPA will need to advise on the real estate tax matters. Furthermore, we have already engaged him. At the time I wrote that proposal, it was a to-do item, and we accomplished that already.
I will take some time today to clean up the real estate guild proposal and to address some of the hot topics. For example, I will not be taking any Parcel 0 NFTs - just to be clear. More to follow soon. Thanks all